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	<title>Comments on: On Helping Parents Instead of Students</title>
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	<link>http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/2011/04/19/on-helping-parents-instead-of-students/</link>
	<description>or, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to Fear and Loathing at a Public Library Reference Desk</description>
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		<title>By: Swiss Army Librarian &#187; Reference Question of the Week &#8211; 5/1/11 :: Brian Herzog</title>
		<link>http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/2011/04/19/on-helping-parents-instead-of-students/#comment-2641</link>
		<dc:creator>Swiss Army Librarian &#187; Reference Question of the Week &#8211; 5/1/11 :: Brian Herzog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2011 15:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/?p=1593#comment-2641</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...]  *This is why it&#8217;s important for assignments to be written down. And why it&#8217;s helpful to bring the assignment sheet to the [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  *This is why it&#8217;s important for assignments to be written down. And why it&#8217;s helpful to bring the assignment sheet to the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Cari</title>
		<link>http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/2011/04/19/on-helping-parents-instead-of-students/#comment-2582</link>
		<dc:creator>Cari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Apr 2011 02:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/?p=1593#comment-2582</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have started making the assumption that the person is asking because they are doing their own paper. That gets them changing their tune very quickly when they realize I am directing them to college-level resources for their fifth-grader! It&#039;s sneaky, but it helps me figure out how to proceed. And since we have a lot of adult students, a lot of times my assumption is simply correct and I&#039;m able to work from there, too!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have started making the assumption that the person is asking because they are doing their own paper. That gets them changing their tune very quickly when they realize I am directing them to college-level resources for their fifth-grader! It&#8217;s sneaky, but it helps me figure out how to proceed. And since we have a lot of adult students, a lot of times my assumption is simply correct and I&#8217;m able to work from there, too!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Herzog</title>
		<link>http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/2011/04/19/on-helping-parents-instead-of-students/#comment-2562</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Herzog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Apr 2011 00:18:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/?p=1593#comment-2562</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Heather: I like the idea of having the parent call the child for more information - I&#039;ll keep that in mind.  And I think you&#039;re right about teaching research - if the kids are left to fend for themselves, they&#039;ll do whatever they need to to get by, just like anyone else.  I don&#039;t know what teachers can do about it, aside from the benchmarks like you mentioned.  Well, that and making more time during the school day for them to actually do actual research.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Heather: I like the idea of having the parent call the child for more information &#8211; I&#8217;ll keep that in mind.  And I think you&#8217;re right about teaching research &#8211; if the kids are left to fend for themselves, they&#8217;ll do whatever they need to to get by, just like anyone else.  I don&#8217;t know what teachers can do about it, aside from the benchmarks like you mentioned.  Well, that and making more time during the school day for them to actually do actual research.</p>
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		<title>By: Heather Booth</title>
		<link>http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/2011/04/19/on-helping-parents-instead-of-students/#comment-2557</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather Booth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Apr 2011 16:52:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/?p=1593#comment-2557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think your steps are great.  I sometimes have the parent call the student while in the library in order to clarify requirements.  And when giving contact info, be sure to relay any email address, Facebook contact, or other digital method for the student to communicate with the library.

We are see the documenting backwards epidemic a lot lately too.  I think it&#039;s a complicated problem.  Many of the teachers I&#039;ve talked to have a very specific way they are asking the kids to take notes and research, have deadlines for specific parts of the project, have requirements about what kinds of sources they can use and how to *prove* they used these sources (ie - notes and a citation from a reference book is not enough: they must bring the book in to class, which limits other students&#039; access).  They don&#039;t have enough time in the school day to let the kids use the school library, and they&#039;re so overbooked after school that they rarely seem to make it in to the public library before their citations are due.  Until research instruction becomes more of a priority in our educational system as a whole, I think it&#039;s only going to get worse.  

@Marianne, I&#039;ve also worked with parents of teachers who come in doing their &quot;kids&#039;&quot; work. It&#039;s very frustrating.  And illuminating.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think your steps are great.  I sometimes have the parent call the student while in the library in order to clarify requirements.  And when giving contact info, be sure to relay any email address, Facebook contact, or other digital method for the student to communicate with the library.</p>
<p>We are see the documenting backwards epidemic a lot lately too.  I think it&#8217;s a complicated problem.  Many of the teachers I&#8217;ve talked to have a very specific way they are asking the kids to take notes and research, have deadlines for specific parts of the project, have requirements about what kinds of sources they can use and how to *prove* they used these sources (ie &#8211; notes and a citation from a reference book is not enough: they must bring the book in to class, which limits other students&#8217; access).  They don&#8217;t have enough time in the school day to let the kids use the school library, and they&#8217;re so overbooked after school that they rarely seem to make it in to the public library before their citations are due.  Until research instruction becomes more of a priority in our educational system as a whole, I think it&#8217;s only going to get worse.  </p>
<p>@Marianne, I&#8217;ve also worked with parents of teachers who come in doing their &#8220;kids&#8217;&#8221; work. It&#8217;s very frustrating.  And illuminating.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Herzog</title>
		<link>http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/2011/04/19/on-helping-parents-instead-of-students/#comment-2535</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Herzog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 15:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/?p=1593#comment-2535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Elizabeth: the only thing I can think of is to make kids document their project each step of the way - that way, they can go back afterward for book sources.  But rigid timelines don&#039;t work for all students.  And the Northwest Tree Octopus can only go so far.

@Marianne: that is sad on many levels.  But you&#039;re right, it&#039;s not just parents/kids, it&#039;s also grandparents, adult/adult, etc - lots of variations in one person doing another&#039;s work for them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Elizabeth: the only thing I can think of is to make kids document their project each step of the way &#8211; that way, they can go back afterward for book sources.  But rigid timelines don&#8217;t work for all students.  And the Northwest Tree Octopus can only go so far.</p>
<p>@Marianne: that is sad on many levels.  But you&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s not just parents/kids, it&#8217;s also grandparents, adult/adult, etc &#8211; lots of variations in one person doing another&#8217;s work for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Marianne</title>
		<link>http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/2011/04/19/on-helping-parents-instead-of-students/#comment-2532</link>
		<dc:creator>Marianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 11:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/?p=1593#comment-2532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Parents doing their kid&#039;s homework is always discouraging, but I won&#039;t ever forget the time an elderly woman, struggling with a cane, asked for my assistance with the copier.  She needed to copy the want ads for her fifty-something-year-old son who had lost his job as a school administrator!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parents doing their kid&#8217;s homework is always discouraging, but I won&#8217;t ever forget the time an elderly woman, struggling with a cane, asked for my assistance with the copier.  She needed to copy the want ads for her fifty-something-year-old son who had lost his job as a school administrator!</p>
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		<title>By: Elizabeth</title>
		<link>http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/2011/04/19/on-helping-parents-instead-of-students/#comment-2528</link>
		<dc:creator>Elizabeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2011 23:38:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.swissarmylibrarian.net/?p=1593#comment-2528</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;*The absolute worse-case scenario, but one I’ve been seeing more and more, is when the project is already done and they just need a book source for the bibliography.&quot;

I work in a library at an urban community college, and I run into this situation at least once a week (not that the students always confess, but I can usually tell). I am one of four librarians who regularly work with students at the desk.

I think it reflects a trend in the teaching of writing toward simply putting words on the page, and not worrying about where that information comes from. Some of our developmental English classes don&#039;t even require one source in their short essays. 

As a librarian, I am not sure how to correct this. But clearly it&#039;s a problem with deeper roots than I thought if you&#039;re seeing it at the middle school level. Very worrisome.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;*The absolute worse-case scenario, but one I’ve been seeing more and more, is when the project is already done and they just need a book source for the bibliography.&#8221;</p>
<p>I work in a library at an urban community college, and I run into this situation at least once a week (not that the students always confess, but I can usually tell). I am one of four librarians who regularly work with students at the desk.</p>
<p>I think it reflects a trend in the teaching of writing toward simply putting words on the page, and not worrying about where that information comes from. Some of our developmental English classes don&#8217;t even require one source in their short essays. </p>
<p>As a librarian, I am not sure how to correct this. But clearly it&#8217;s a problem with deeper roots than I thought if you&#8217;re seeing it at the middle school level. Very worrisome.</p>
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